I’m headed to New York in a couple weeks, and
of is one of the people I trust to keep me plugged in on where I need to be eating. But when I texted Olivia for tips, it sounded like she was in the same kind of funk I’ve been feeling since the spring. So I ask asked her to run it back for Volume 2 of what was easily the most read post in Bangers & Jams history …Olivia, what’s going?
Olivia: I think New York dining has lost the plot. It is absurd how many new places are popping up literally every day, and as someone who prides themselves on being relatively on top of what is going on in the food world, I can’t keep up, nor do I especially want to. It’s created a fatigue that ultimately feels a bit like, I am actually too tired to risk going to this place and not loving it.
I keep prioritizing going back to my favorite spots, and each time I’ve branched out I’ve left feeling discouraged. I know we’ve both had semi-controversial experiences recently at restaurants that everyone loves (or at least talks about all the time) that missed the mark for us.
Austin: Oh yeah, here’s my little rant to
about how sterile the experience was at Ha’s Snack Bar, a place beloved by both legacy institutions like the Times and food critic .O: I loved Ha’s, but completely agree with you. I feel guilty for not being all that impressed by I Cavallini, but more on that Monday…
A: We don’t allow Nick Curtola slander on this blog. Find a new slant.
Every since my little freak out last week, things are picking up. The new, homey bar set up at Kato is a dream. Baby Bistro is life affirming. And I’m all booked for my pre-and-post New York Film Festival dinners. We’ll see what hits.
I’m heading from New York straight to Maine, with another string of dinners lined up, which means I’ll be commandeering restaurant menus consistently over the next menu. You and I both feel strongly that:
There’s a right and a wrong way to order.
Ordering poorly can be way worse than a restaurant not delivering.
Other people shouldn’t try to order when we’re at the table.
O: And most importantly, don’t tell me a place sucks when it is objectively good, just because you don’t know your way around a menu.
The long and short of it is that people are bad at ordering. We have it figured out and can easily ensure a B+ or better meal.
The rules of ordering
A: I outlined my rules for ordering a few months ago and I know you have thoughts. What am I missing here?
The No. 1 rule is do not order for the table if you’re bad at it. The most unattractive thing you can do at a restaurant is treat the service staff poorly. The second most unattractive thing you can do is bungle the order for everyone else.
Ask everyone at the table, “Is there anything you want to make sure we get?” Order it unless you hate them.
Ask the waiter if they have one rec. Just one. If they list more than two, ignore everything they said. If they recite the full menu, don’t return.
I’ve had multiple friends point out that they’re thankful I always order a salad. Who are these people not ordering a salad at a big dinner?
Entrees are usually meh, but sometimes, I concede, you have to order them.
Let the restaurant handle when things arrive. Don’t suggest any coursing unless asked.
Get every dessert, or at least as many as you can handle. Ask your dining companions if they want coffee or amaro.
Do not order steak unless you know ahead of time that you’re eating with people who all like their steak cooked to the same temp. Haggling over meat doneness at the table is the quickest way to sink a dinner into oblivion.
O: I’m indifferent on steak temps, but trust you there. Couldn’t agree more re: coursing and overdoing it on dessert. Most importantly, if you are out to dinner with Austin or myself, please let us order. Here’s what you’re missing.
Firm believer in ordering the salad. It’s the best litmus test for a strong restaurant. A perfect green salad, or an exciting house salad that adds a little crunch and color to your meal is a worthy addition every single time.
Unless you’re CERTAIN that they’ll be piping hot and in your preferred style, don’t bother with fries. Sorry to be controversial but it is a huge risk if you don’t know what you’re getting into. Nothing worse than a lukewarm, soggy fry. A few worthwhile fries to order: Jeans, Cervos, Ingas Bar, Cafe Kestrel.
If lychee or lavender appear as components on the cocktail menu, don’t bother with a special drink. I guarantee they will be slightly off and overly sweet. Go with your usual negroni or stick to wine.
To preface: I love hamachi or a raw tuna as much as the next girl … but they all taste relatively similar. Unless the set is particularly enticing or you’re at a pointedly seafood restaurant, you can skip any crudo on the menu.
When ordering, go with our gut or go with everything your well-versed friend says. Indecision and impulse ordering will ruin your meal before it starts.
A special centered around seasonal produce, must order. A special centered around meat or fish, must skip. Sorry to bring Bourdain into this.
As Austin and I have discussed before — don’t modify.
And a few perfect orders
A: Alright, let’s see this shit in action. You and I are both noted Penny lovers, a restaurant that operates in the rare air at which it’s impossible to execute a poor order. But there’s a difference between a good order and a great order. Why settle?
Olivia’s Penny picks
Ice Box
Sesame brioche + butter, add anchovies always
Stuffed Squid
Seasonal cold fish / veg adjacent starters. They used to have a killer eel and cucumber dish, now I’d go with the bonito and marinated beans.
One fish main. I know that jimmy nardello set with the swordfish right now would rock my world.
If you haven’t had the ice cream sandwich, get it. If you have, get the chocolate mousse.
Austin’s Penny picks
I just want it on the record that I think it’s insane not to get both desserts or the lobster here. What a restaurant.
When it’s impossible to decide
O: I dine out alone quite a bit, which is especially difficult when I want to try 12 things on a menu. The first time I went to Sqirl in LA I felt genuinely uncomfortable as I stood, for 10+ minutes, in an empty cafe, trying to figure out what to order. The trick is to get whatever speaks to you, and not to think about it too much. I ended up getting the When Sally Met Sally and I think about it all the time. I stayed for long enough I felt like breakfast-dessert was in order, and got a croissant with Sqirl jam. I did a great job, despite the ordering paralysis.
A: Fwiw, my Sqirl order is to walk over to Courage Bagels and make the sorrel pesto rice bowl at home …
When to break all the rules
A: I’m a horrible person to take to Mission Chinese Food. You’re not going to have a fun time. They have so many good vegetable dishes. And yet. I simply can’t stop myself from ordering the thrice cooked bacon and rice cakes, the chicken wings, the beef chow fun, the kung pao pastrami and the lamb ribs. It’s delicious and the experience sucks. MCF forever.
O: Superiority Burger. You’re legally required to order all the specials, no matter what. That stuff is coming straight from the Union Square greenmarket and you’re going to love it. Same goes for desserts! Your meal might be three sandwiches (must be TFT, Collard Greens, and Yuba Verde) and three desserts, and that’s OK.
How to order when you’re at a family dinner and you know the place fucking sucks
O: Keep it simple. I’m either ordering a plain ass salad, think caesar or lightly dressed arugula, or every single side dish they’ve got. Garlicky spinach and roasted potatoes just do the trick every time.
A: You also can often find safe ground in mediocre scallops or forgettable risotto.
One false move…
O: I fear there are places where with one false move, you’re going to leave disappointed. Not necessarily because all but three items on the menu are bad, but because you’d be doing yourself and the restaurant a disservice by not ordering their very best items.
Cafe Kestrel in Red Hook is a place I’ve covered pretty extensively because it is my favorite kind of restaurant. I love how it feels to be sitting at one of six tables, with little bowls of olives and cold martinis crowding you. My first visit to Kestrel last June was one of my best meals I’ve ever had in New York. Admittedly, the second visit wasn’t quite as great, a review I’ve heard from others, too. So, to do your best to avoid that, here are your must orders: squash blossoms, if available, seasonal yellowfin tuna set, especially in summer, french fries, cafe salad, in any of its iterations. Most importantly, the apricot cake, which is basically a sticky toffee pudding draped in fresh whipped cream and butterscotch. Hate to say it, you can skip the mac & cheese.
I feel similarly about another magical dinner I’ve had at Frankies 457 Spuntino. If you skip the cavatelli, caesar salad, and red wine prunes with mascarpone, I can’t help you.
A: No offense to the wonderful people behind Cafe Kestrel or, like, Pitts, but to me these are the Grok of menus. Punt this kind of Justin-Timberlake-as-art-director-in-Friends-With-Benefits word jumble into the sky.
And two favorites, with notes
O: Bridges is a restaurant where you can’t really go wrong. I also think it is a place to return to again and again as the menu changes with the seasons. If I were going tomorrow, this is the order for a table for two:
Spot prawn and salted plum on toast
Plums, snap peas, tropea onions, and lardo (YES DOUBLE PLUMS I am a freak for stone fruit)
Grilled squid with mussels, fresh cheese, and romano beans
Whole grilled sole with clams and rice, for 2.
I’m skipping the comte tart because I’ve had it, but it isn’t an every time order for me. Worth having once, but not repeatedly IMO.
A: Bridges somehow gets away with never really caring about salads. My rec would be to go seafood heavy up top — spot prawn, uni custard, cured tuna and dates, comte tart (come on) — before hitting the duck and closing out with the vin jaune gelato. I’d take a similar approach with a four top at Crevette. The menu here is certainly too big. Stay light, varied and voluminous up top in the small plates before landing on two entrees.
Sicilian sashimi (small)
Red shrimp carpaccio (beyond this the raw bar is an expense account dog whistle)
Bluefin tuna and potato
Fennel salad
Beans and squid
Peaches, peppers and mozzarella
Seafood rice
Chicken
Rum cake
Soft serve
O: Ok I am going to remove the bluefin tuna and potato. It sounds like something I really want, but I don’t care for it all that much in practice. I also think one chilled mussel per person is worth it. They’re that good. I would put up a real fight to get the octopus and harissa skewer on that order, total menu highlight for me. I’ve also had the chicken twice now and was not impressed either time :) I want that fucking dover sole …
Moral of the story: There’s more than one perfect order, but you have to follow the rules.
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I love this and need to know: how much do you let reviews inform your order vs. flying blind and getting whatever sounds good? I sometimes like to know what the skips/must-gets are, especially if it's a spendier spot, but also... surprise and delight, baby!
Re: the waiter’s recs, I don’t think it’s a red flag if they suggest two things for opposing tastes. If they say something like “if you’re looking for something light, I like this, if you’re looking for a full entree, I like this” or “this is my favorite vegetarian dish, this is my favorite meat dish” kind of thing.